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tv   Piers Morgan Tonight  CNN  July 21, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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>> that's it for 360. thanks for watching. piers morgan starts now. tonight donald trump. >> america is doing so poorly. the leadership is very poor. we're doing very poorly. >> donald trump, how he would solve the debt crisis and what he would do to give america grace. and remember the uproar over obama's birth certificate? how smiley says that was race basing. i'll ask him why. he says the 2012 white house will be the last in history. and why the white house itself pays too much attention to wall street.
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>> if you're looking for the safe choice, you shouldn't look for barack obama. >> we'll have a conversation with tavis smiley. this is "piers morgan tonight." donald trump says america's economy could be going bad from worse. he joins me tonight on the phone. donald, how are you? >> hello, piers. >> first of all, congratulations on becoming a grandfather again. your lovely daughter ivanka and a baby girl ella rose, i understand. >> that is true. we're very happy about that. >> tell me, if we were trying to prescribe an economic future or young arabella that you would feel comfortable about, what would you do. >> first you have to get the debt down. the whole world of debt has to be changed as far as this country is concerned.
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we have to create jobs and rapidly. because if we don't, things are going to head in a direction that's going to be almost impossible to recover from. so we really need jobs now. we have to take jobs away from other countries because other countries are taking our jobs. there is practically not a company that doesn't do business with the united states that is making a very big profit. china is going to make $300 billion on us at least this year. and they just revised that recently, i don't know if you saw. they said those numbers are going to be low. so we have to take our country back. >> what do you think of this gang of six plan? do you think it's workable from what you've seen? >> from what i've seen, nobody really knows exactly what it represents and what it is yet. but at least they're in there pitches and trying to make the big deal. the big deal is really the deal
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they should make. i don't like the punt. i don't like the deal where we kick it down the road for six months. this is the time to make the deal. and i have to tell you, the republicans have the cards. people might not think that, but the republicans have all of the cards. and this is the time to get rid of obama care. this is the time to make the great deal. >> i've been following you on twitter and you've been aggressive about obama on the economy. you believe he can't stop spending and that america has to stop spending. one of his believes, of course, is that he's got to get rid of these tax incentives for the rich. and look after the guys with no money. why would you oppose that? >> you know, it's a different world today. people in this world can form companies in far end countries where they pay very little tax, much less tax. and once you start taxing -- and i'm not talking about me. but once you start taxing people that do create jobs and do create businesses, you take the incentive away then you'll really have an unemployment problem.
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so he's treading on very dangerous waters. >> tell me this, donald. i had grover norquist on here the other day, i asked a question he found quite hard to answer. i said to him, given where we are right now in america economically, how much of the blame should be attached to barack obama and how much should be attached to the previous eight years of republican administration? if you were choosing a percentage, a portioning blame to each party there, what would you say? >> well, look. you know as well as anybody and know me probably better than most because of our relationship with celebrity apprentice where you won and did great. i'm proud of you and how well you're doing. but i was never a big fan of george bush, so it's not i'm a rara guy for bush. but obama took over a situation that made it not better but probably worse.
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i think the economy is getting worse. i see things getting worse. employment has gone up, not down. so bush certainly wasn't the greatest, and obama has not done the job. he's created a lot of disincentive. he's created a lot of dissatisfaction. regulatory is going through the roof. it's almost impossible to get anything done in the country. environmentally speaking, i've seen jobs that are stopped all the time because of absolutely insane and ridiculous environmental rules. these are jobs that could be employing a lot of people. so nothing's been made better, it's only been made worse. so in terms of percentages, i'd really not like to say that. i would say i'm not a fan of the first and certainly not a fan of the second. because the second has made things worse, not better. >> in terms of america plc, the business model if you like, america incorporated as it is here what are the fundamental changes? it seems to me you're right about bureaucracy.
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china just gets stuff done that's why they're roaring the ahead. that's one of the things. second lit, america doesn't really build anything anymore. it doesn't export enough stuff to these countries. but other things have you identified? what should america be doing to revise this business plan? to get itself going again? >> you're right about that. the system and the model is broken. it didn't used to be broken years ago. everybody went out and worked. you look at 50% of the people not paying taxes. it's amazing statistics. we have a lot of people that just don't want to work or haven't been brought up to work. and it's a big problem for this country. in china, everybody's running around working like mad. i give them great credit for that. but i also give them credit for being much smarter than our leaders. and they've taken our jobs away. in china, everybody's running around working like mad. i give them great credit for that. but i also give them credit for being much smarter than our leaders.
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and they've taken our jobs away. they manufacture our products. as do other countries. the first thing that has to be done is get back on track with respect to opec which is a tremendous abuser of this country. and with respect to china and others who abuse our countries because their leaders make better ideas than our leaders. because our leaders are either not as smart or there's some other reason. you look at columbia, a country not that large, they had a $4 billion surplus on us this year. they made $4 billion. we never make a deal. we never make a deal where we come out on top. so we've lost our jobs, we've lost our incentive. i will tell you that -- and piers i've discussed this with you before. getting things done in this country, if you want to start a company, it's getting to be virtually impossible with all of the bureaucracy and approvals. it's horrible. >> i do think america is just so wrapped down in red tape.
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getting all the basic things done involves tons of paperwork. i'm surprised having come to live here now how the most basic stuff you want done requires 100 pages of documents. this is one of the reasons like countries like china are storming ahead because they don't have that bureaucracy. >> i've been to china and all over the world. they want to build a city in a piece of the ocean. you know how long it takes them? two days. they say we're going to fill this in and have thousands of jobs. . if you even suggest it in this country, they say you're certifybly insane. even a little piece of grass has held up a major job from being built. major. supplying jobs to everybody and everybody wants it to happen. but because it's got a little piece of grass, a certain type of rather rare grass, the
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environmentalists hold up the job. now this will never see the light. >> it's ridiculous. >> and yet china will fill up the ocean. and i said to a friend of mine in china how long did it take you to get your permits? he didn't know what i'm talking about, it went so fast. so this country is in serious trouble. and we have to get back on track. >> it is in serious trouble. what i want to talk to you about now is who you would trust. given you're no longer in the race, which of the republican candidates so far and i guess michele bachmann is emerging as one of the favorites from the tea party. mitt romney is best at fund raising. which is the one that you think could potentially beat barack obama? >> it's too early to say. but i will say this, that i
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think the republicans are so misplaying their hand. they have the cards. and it started back in december when you had the lame duck session. and obama rose like a phoenix. it was over for obama and they brought him back with the deal they made. the tax medicare is one of the dumbest things i've seen especially if you're running for re-election. the only one happy is nancy pelosi and her group. i see it already with congressman west where he's being beaten up now by the democrats over medicare. >> what do you think of michele bachmann? >> well, i think she's a very underrated person. she actually came to see me in new york a few weeks ago, and i was very impressed with her. i think she's highly underrated. i think she's very good. >> and sarah palin obviously has
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not committed yet. >> no, and i think she's terrific. i think she's a terrific person. she came to see me a little while before. >> they're all coming to see you, donald. >> yeah. they are highly underrated people. they're smart. they know what they're doing. they know every move. and they don't get proper credit. i don't know that sarah is going to run. i don't think she's going to run. i'm not sure she knows whether or not she's going to run, but i think she's a terrific person. i think michele is a terrific person. >> speaking of people who have come to see me, i have your friend tavis smiley coming in in a moment. who drew controversy that your involvement in the election would make the ugliest,
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nastiest, most de racist in the history of the country. >> the word racist has not been applied to me, i'll tell you that. but i'm happy with what i did about the birther issue. i got obama to do something that nobody else was able to get him to do. there's a real question why it took so long for him to do it. maybe you'll have to check out that document very carefully. but i got him to do something nobody else was able to do. and i'm very proud of it. the republicans have a chance, but the way they're going about it, they are not going to get him out of office. they are making mistake after mistake. and i can see them already making another mistake when it comes to what they're discussing right now in terms of debt limits. >> donald trump, entertaining as ever. thank you for joining me. >> thank you very much. coming up, tavis smiley's response on trump and president obama. discover customersl are getting five percent
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tavis smiley is he host of his own show and the author of "fail up." thank you for being here. >> congratulations on your show. >> thank you and indeed on yours. you heard donald trump there. what did you think of that? >> i did not call him racist. i suggested that the way he was handling this birther issue is showing how racist perhaps the are race could be. they were all signs this was going to be a divisive campaign.
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>> i know donald trump well. i don't think he's got a racist bone in his body. i know that. i think he felt with obama and the birther thing, no matter how ludicrous it was to other people, he didn't realize why the president didn't release his birth certificate right away. why do you think it took so long? >> i'm the last person they would ask to people for them. what i do know is that barack obama has been treated in such a way there is no comparison to any president being asked to render that document. that issue had been settled ed d long ago. and for whatever reason, hate, racist, whatever it may be. there are those who will not let this issue go. i thought then and think now that it was beneath him to try to build his campaign on that issue. beyond that, i thought donald trump was pimping the media. and i thought many in the media went with it.
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i said from day one donald trump is not going to go for president. >> i would take issue with that. there was a time he went in the polls for the nominees. he was deadly serious. he was looking at this and getting amazing reaction from the public. then he had the triple whammy really. you had the correspondents dinner he went to, osama bin laden killed, the birther issue resolved. i think he was genuinely thinking about it. >> you have insights i don't have, obviously. what i do know is this is not the first time he's flirted with running for the white house. if you're going to run, run. but run on legitimate and serious issues. this notion of the birther attack on the president, that was beyond the pail. my friend cornell put it this way. when it comes to the president, we have to respect him, protect him, and correct him.
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i've always respected the president. there's been times i've had to protect him against birther attacks. but just as often i will correct him if i think he's wrong. this was a time where he president had to be protected from the vulgar attacks. >> is america more or less racist since barack obama became the first african-american president? >> more or less? that's a good question. i don't think it's more or less. this whole notion of a post racial america was nonsense from the beginning. a bad forulation when it was first raised. i think what it signifies is america may be less racist. but in no way are we post racial. >> in a funny way, it was a fantastic day for african-americans when he got into the white house.
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but at the same time it raised the whole issue, put it out there, exposed people. and i share your concern that the next election campaign, there will be subtle racism. a play here, i'm sure. >> why not outright and overt? i think that birther attack was indicative -- >> moving on from that. do you still seery resid -- >> i'm not going to suggest that was racist through and through. for all black folk -- all the love and admiration for barack obama in the african-american community, obviously he could not have been voted in without the white folk. so i don't want to have a
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blanket approach to calling all americans racist that didn't support obama. my point wasn't to stack the deck in such a way that any critique of the president was racist. because i critique the president. >> what is your main critique of president obama right now? >> it's a question of are you going to side with the weak or the strong? and the evidence to date shows that this president has sided with the strong over the weak. >> in what way? >> wall street. he responded. in ways that sommers and geithner and others in the administration wanted him to respond. in so many instances, we see him siding with the strong over the weak. or compromising and capitulating on issues that do not serve the base that got him elected. >> part of his charm of why he got elected is he's not
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reactionary. what is wrong with a president taking his time listening to the arguments making decisions? are we in too much of a rapid fire society these days where everything has to be boom, boom, boom. i quite like that style of presidency. >> two responses to that. one, i laugh at my friends in the media who celebrated the fact that he was calm and deliberate and methodical and he listened well when he was running. those same progressives are now giving the president hell for taking too much time, et cetera. it's been amazing to watch that 180 there. number two, there is nothing wrong with the president taking his time to consider all sides. but at some point people want to see the president fighting for them. that's what their polling suggested that people want to know whether or not the president is fighting for them.
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my grand dad said there's some fights that ain't worth fighting even if you win. there's other fights you have to fight even if you lose. i think americans want to see the president fight for them. >> hold that thought. we'll see what you think he should be fighting on and why. the day i'm inaugurated, this country looks at itself
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the day i'm inaugurated, this country looks at itself differently and the world looks at america differently. if you believe that we've got to heal america and we've got to repair our standing in the world, then i think my supporters believe that i am a messenger who can deliver that message around the world in a way no other candidate can do. >> that was then candidate barack obama with tavis smiley in 2007. we promised a lot. it was hope, and perhaps hope was a bit outrageous. nobody could live up to the kind
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of expectation we had. we were talking before the break where you'd like him to be more forceful. america's in a massive financial meltdown at the moment. a real crisis. how do we get it back on its feet? >> i think youy campaigning is doing two different things. judged not by what they promised by but rather how they handle the crises on their watch. here's the bottom line, when obama was in the interview, he and mccain had presidential debates. the word poverty does not show up in debates. mccain doesn't raise it, the moderators in those debates don't raise it. no conversation about the poor, about poverty during that campaign. who are the new poor these days? they are the former middle class. what's my answer to your question? it's simple. three things, jobs, jobs, jobs. that's the message they've been missing. it troubles me that a campaign that was so good at staying on message, that was so good at delivering the right message somehow got off track and
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they've not focused on jobs. the job about frank rich in "the new yorker" recently is brilliant. we've made the same critique for three years. this is fascinating for me. if piers morgan says the same thing i say, it's okay. if frank rich says it, it's okay. but somehow if we make those same arguments in love and out of respect, somehow we're haters. somehow we're being too hard on the president. somehow inside our own community you're a pariah. why is what i say any different? >> you say in your book is your favorite quote is samuel beckett. if you fail, fail again, fail better.
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is part of your problem with president obama that he doesn't take enough dramatic action to risk potential failure? he's not doing things fast enough. i mean, interestingly, just when everyone was saying this, he went and killed bin laden. boom bang. took him out. audacious raid. he has it in him to do that kind of thing. then on the debt crisis, on the economyebyzv_bd{oñ]ean dimp ten. >> i think it's about, priorities. >> how do we get people back to work? if you were in charge, what do we do? >> there's got to be a laser focus on jobs. number two, the president shouldn't be afraid to say the word poverty. you can't be afraid to address it. there's got to be a laser focus on job. let's talk about deficit reduction. that's the quickest way we'll reduce unemployment. then examples of moments in time that we talk about deficit
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reduction and try to advance on it around the world where it leads to job losses, not job creation. so this -- >> you'd be spending more now to get out of this? >> this deficit reduction conversation right now is ill timed. this is back to my point about too much capitulation. this is not the part to be talking about deficit reduction. again, i'm not the only person to say that. show me examples in history where deficit reduction leads to more job. >> would you raise taxes right now to increase revenue? >> i think raising taxes is an option, number one. >> cut spending at the same time? >> i think there are places to cut spending, but we're not cutting it in the right places, number one. number two, you can raise taxes on the right group of americans. number three, i think you can close a whole lot of corporate loopholes. it's tragic for me that mr. emil is head of the economic commission and he heads a company that paid not is cent. i paid more taxes than ge paid. >> what you're really saying is that president obama has not looked after the poor in the way that perhaps he promised it. and he has kind of back
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scratched the rich and hasn't done nearly enough to be punitive with them. ironically given so many of these people, the bankers and so on, were the ones who got us in the mess. would you like him to go after the richer americans? >> yes. but with one exception. i respect your word choice. i don't call it i think the president -- ) r~donald trump said earlier to me you start taxing the rich, what you're taxes is achievement and hard work. it's the american dream in many ways. why should they be punished? >> the rich always say that. the rich have never seen attacks that they like. i've been rich and i've been poor in my own life. i also believe i am not unlike other americans that we're not unwilling to pay our fair share. that's a question you raised.
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i said consistently that great presidents respect born, they're made there is no fdr without randolph pushing him. there is no lbj without mlk pushing him. so you got to push these guys. >> they had plans these guys. >> and they took risk. >> when you say laser focus on jobs, what's the big plan he's not doing to get americans back to work? >> first of all, again this conversation about deficit reduction is ill time, number one. number two, those same guys on wall street who we took care of, we've got to find a way to have them get off the trillion dollar plus money they're sitting on and not reinvesting it in the community. we could do this all night. i'm not an elected official, and i respect the question and we could answer it and continue to answer it. the problem is that the folk who
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we elect to deal with these issues know what to do. when they bailed wall street out, they did it with no strings attached. >> hold that thought. when i come back i want to talk to you about which of the republican candidates if you were obama you would be fearing most as an opponent. [ male announcer ] things seem better with travelocity's best price guarantee. our girl's an architect. our boy's a genius. we are awesome parents! biddly-boop. [ male announcer ] if you find a lower rate on a room you've booked, we won't just match it. we'll give you $50 towards your next trip. [ gnome ] it's go time.
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back with my guest tavis smiley. tavis, when you see the republican potential nominee lineup, if you're barack obama right now given the bound of the economy, which one do you the most? >> at this point i'm not sure i'm scared. and i don't mean thatfd3@a to sound arrogantz >> let me rephrase, who would you least like to be facing? >> i've said consistently i don't think you can beat somebody with nobody. and i don't see that somebody yet that can take the president out. i still believe my critique notwithstanding about pushing the president to be more aggressive about the poor and about jobs. i don't see anybody at the moment that i'm looking at that can beat the president head up,
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number one. secondly though, it is interesting to me that all this talk now about rick perry which has everybody excited on the right is fascinating. here's the guy who just a few years ago as governor was talking about seceding from the union. now he's considering the idea of running for president and that excites the republican party? this party that is always rara america red white and blue. >> but this is the thing that fascinates me with the tea party, with the moderates. given all their backgrounds, there's no consistency here. there's a really desperate wide gulf between a number of these people. they've got to work out of the party. >> they're acting like democrats, in other words. for many years democrats haven't been able to figure that out either. they do have to have a way to
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figure out what they want to be when they grow up. but, again, it's fascinating to me that the talk that seems to excite the base of the party most is not talk about the folk who are already in the race but by any other name, hailey barber, et cetera. >> what about of herman cain? >> i've never met him before. he can deliver a good speech. beyond delivering a good speech, i don't know much about him. i'm sure we'll learn more about him in coming days. >> your story is fascinating. you came from a very humble beginning. ten kids living in a three bedroom trailer. i read a quote here from rhodes. the story of rising out of poverty and purpose of music in a dream. his hopes not to be just a broadcaster or a businessman but also a leader and a builder. high praise there from a guy who's interviewed most of the top people in politics and business and so on. >> those were kind words. >> when you hear that about yourself and you have come from a poor background, you have driven yourself where you got to. you're clearly passionate about poverty now and people who have nothing.
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is it more than an us now in america, you think? is the gap getting bigger? >> to be clear, the gap between the have gots and have notes is widening. in this most multiracial america that worries me. there is no empire in the history of the world that at some point has not failed or faultered faultered or flattened. i don't know if it's our patriotism, it will fail one day under the weight of poverty. this country is going to implode or going to get crushed under the weight of poverty. you can't have 1% of the people who own and control more wealth than the other 90% of the population. those numbers don't add up in the long run.
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>> what is the trick in recovering from failure? >> i think acknowledging as beckett suggested that failure is as much a part of life as success is. i suspect if i were to ask you this question, anyone i know that is successful if they're honest they learned more from their failure than their success. >> what's your biggest failure? >> i went to jail early for writing bad checks in college. took me 16 years of hiding the fact that i hadn't graduated to get my degree. in my career on television and radio i've been caught on tape saying things i wish i hadn't been caught saying. and had to ask for forgiveness from other people. >> of all these things, what have you learned from yourself? >> that i'm human. failure is as much a part of life as success is and beckett is right.
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if you've tried, you're going to fail. >> so should people be more open about failure. >> not just politicians, all of us. the game is to act like once you arrived at the level elitism, that you've never made mistakes or screwed up. i want to push back on that with this book. boy, i'm glad we got aflac huh. aflac! oh, i've just got major medical... major medical. ...but it helps pay the doctors. pays the doctors, boyyy! [ quack ] oh yeah? what about your family? ♪ we added aflac, so we get cash! it's like our safety net... ♪ to help with the mortgage or whatever we need!
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there's real concern in washington that even a compromised deal might not make it through the house. jessica is going to join us shortly with details and where we go from here. also tonight, if taxes go up, will jobs go away? that question is at the center of any debt deal with republicans and democrats. keeping them honest, we're joined by two big names former governor on new jersey. also former senator. and also vice chairman of the national republican senatorial committee.
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>> oh, i believe it. i support it. i wanted to bring an end to the greed running amuck at the top. when he moves into office, we get his economic team coming out of the shadow of wall street. america had a nervous background in 2008 into what? wall street greed. all of us agree. we all know we have gangster proclivities. insider trading, all the various criminal activities none of it investigated or prosecuted as of now, that's what led to our breakdown. now we're having a debate over cutting? there is a state of emergency in america. it is a matter of national security. the condition of poor working people as much as iraq and as much as afghanistan. barack obama does not make that a priority. >> why is he not prioritizing this? >> he's got the wrong people around him. it's very clear. i heard you say he's very calm and serene. i love calmness and serenity. but when people i'm concerned
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about are catching hail which is poor people of all colors, you ought to have a state of emergency. fdr had a state of emergency. lbj, our white brother from texas had a state of emergency in regard to black america. he has conscience. >> in the african-american community particularly, do you feel he's not doing enough to help african-americans especially poor? >> i think there's an ambivalence in america. black people for the most part have a deep sense of protection for barack obama. he's visually attacked by right wing and fox news and others all the time.
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he lives under the threat of death. we all pray for him daily. >> i haven't i haven't heard fox news say quite what you said about him. >> you know what the reason is? i tell the truth. fox news doesn't. >> so the truth -- when you abuse him it's the truth. when they abuse him -- >> i love mascots. i love puppets. people choose to be mascots and puppets. they're still human beings. but when fox news accused him of being a socialist, socialist, and he's very much an extension of the very corporate state that has been squeezing out the juices of our democracy, making it difficult for poor children, precious children of all colors, to live lives of decency? >> tavis says the main focus now must be jobs jobs jobs. most people now are in consensus about it. >> absolutely. >> how do you get people who are out of work back to work quickly how do we fix this crisis? >> america has tremendous
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creativity when america has a priority. when you make jobs jobs jobs the priority, the kind of thing tavis talks about, robert cut nesterovich ner talks about. we come up with waist. >> the american philosophy is choose a problem and then attack it with everything you've got. . if you're sick with cancer you want to be somewhere like los angeles because the doctors will go baboom. and i feel until america collectively with this job situation does this and komgs together and says we are going to fix this, until that happens. and it's not being driven yet by the top. kwib ling with each other. >> some of this has to do with your question about retraining those persons. as industries change, as we see where the future is headed, we train those persons who are out of work now. dr. west and i are in large measure to announce this poverty tour. starting august 6 we are getting on a bus, the conscience tour a call to conscience. the idea to get on the bus and go to big cities and small towns
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starting with african-americans and hispanics and white men and women, seniors and homeless and veterans all across this city, in 15 different cities we're going to raise the issue of poverty, talk to those persons battling it, struggling. those who have lost their homes, don't have jobs, struggling to get an education. we want to use this week of august 6 through the 12 to put as much attention, focus, spotlight as we can on raising the issue of poverty in america higher on the agenda. in this presidential race that we're about to embark upon, somebody has to stand up and defend and fight for and not be afraid to talk about the plight of the poor in this country. this issue is starting to get a lot more traction in this country. we're delighted this tour is bringing in other persons who believe as we believe this issue has to be higher on the agenda. nea, naarp. every day more and more institutions deciding to support this. >> you're both very passionate about it.
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i think what you're doing is great on this bus. why is there not more anger amongst the average american at the moment? it seems to me as a kind of tacit acceptance of their lot. in other words, we know they're there are big problems. we have to suck it up. >> people are feeling helpless. >> why don't they get out and show a bit of passionate? >> we see it in madison,wisconsin. in indiana. it's beginning to surface but not much. part of it is because we've been dealing with a culture of greed is good. we've been dealing with a culture of don't attack what donald trump, don't tax our success. we've got the lowest tax rates in the last 30 years. trillions of dollars in tax havens offshore. offshore subsidiaries, come racials. one out of corporations didn't pay a penny of taxes whatsoever. >> let me be the devil's advocate here. >> sure. >> is it really the big problem that rich aren't paying enough tax, or is the real problem that poor are not being looked after properly? >> it goes hand in hand. it goes hand in hand. >> donald trump has a point. there are people self-made in
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this country who have worked incredibly hard to get where they are. why should they have to pay exorbitant taxation? >> it's not exorbitant taxes brother piers at all. the level of taxes now compared to where they were in the 1960s and 70s? it's very, very low. but the issue is. this when you give a priority to the interest of corporate plutocrats in wall street, you don't give a priority to jobs or the priority to the poverty that we're talking about. >> it doesn't have to be either or. i it can be and should be both and. we have to look at the rich have to pay their fair share. i know a lot of rich people who are willing to pay fair fair share. >> absolutely. >> the poor have to be looked after. one is happening, the other is not. this gap between the have got and the have-nots cannot continue to grow without us seeing some signs of that anger in the streets. >> a final break. when we come back i want to hold a gun to both your heads metaphorically and say which of the republican candidates if you
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had to would you vote for at the next election as we stand.
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guys, the metaphorical gun is at your head. you've got to vote for one republican nominee as things stand. >> sings i don't see anybody yet on the republican side who cares
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enough about poor and working people, i literally would just put the names on the wall and throw a dart. and whoever it hit, i don't see a difference honestly. >> come on now, be more specific. >> there's not one. use the legacy of martin king. he said we need a qualitative shift in our souls and -- i don't see one republican near that. the democrats hardly have anybody either. i'm critical of both parties. that's why we're talking seriously. >> who cares more do you think about the rights of ordinary people than the more moderate part of the gop? >> i think there's elements in their masses that do. the problem is they misconstrue and end up in the pockets rather than being a government for force for good. >> final question. will you both be voting for obama this time? >> pray for me. [ laughter ] >> i'm a talk show host. i don't have to answer that question. >> can't believe you both choked